Among Christians, and many others, attach the crude religions, suicide is a grave sin, a mortal sin at all (laughs).
So I know that too from the usual reincarnation believers who are indeed more likely to avoid the concept of sin, but about talking about a crime, will against itself as the cosmic order, which is then too bitter to pay for the one who bitterly to repent ,
Now, I want to be fair: I can not prove that they are all wrong.
One for Bedenk I give to but. And if it should penetrate only glued ears.
Do you think about, Heinrich von Kleist, the more given to mankind, as zuwenigst almost all of you have, because he had young in his despair, took his own life, as measured by you, whether it's fact, children leaving behind orphans , the cosmos or anybody else anything else pay off?
Most of you may still vying 25 incarnations, slime, shuffle their feet, secrete prayers, meditate, whatever for what Krumpf try and you will not humanity a quarter of who gave what he gave her.
And even if his actions "sinful", "outrageous", which would have been forever, Who are to judge your about it?
For me anyway, is any of your daily prostrations before unproven theorems and authorities, sclerotic your gods, much perishable!
About SO YOUR A arrogates to you to raise you?
For a slightly inaction?
Yes, THE suits you, to you knee due hypocrites.
Virtue is with you just in particular omission.
Omission, negligence, omission again.
Your faith is ultimately composed of two parts: cowardice and wickedness.
The malice, mostly unknowingly, the need to compensate for your your cowardice.
Something about you must somehow, literally in love with strangers, be exalted.
So you indulge your lies, your submission.
Islam is at least as honest, he calls them open.
Much more is good but also about the not to say.
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Tags: Heinrich von Kleist
I see that you do not think much about faith. That is you also unaffected. Also I can not prove my opinion. Although insane speak many indications that the many reports of example Nahtoterfahrungen are not conceived. Striking evidence that convinces any skeptic, it WILL never exist.
Based on my previous experience, and many reports I can not make a vague image of the beyond me. And it works according to fixed laws. The supreme law is love. (I know you think I'm stupid for now, as this term is so strong reinterpreted in modern times towards sex). But if you take the only commandment of Jesus, which he announced to his followers considered: "Love your neighbor as yourself" (not the 1000 dogmas of most churches) also explains why the suicide is a sin. Whoever kills himself, which we mostly lack of love for oneself. The merits of the humanity of the Suicidenten were doing him at liberty. Even though it is a great sin, that does not mean he is so eternally suffer in agony. But he harms himself still for long periods of time itself mostly As in a hot oven -. Who holds it, will burn. This is painful. However, it is not a punishment but a natural fit. But this injury will heal.
I agree with you that in many churches much cowardice, stupidity and perhaps wickedness prevails. But this has nothing to do with the religion. Jesus taught love - not war cross.
True religion is especially in this day and age a lot more independent thinking than you think. There is no simple nachfaseln any formulas. But an intense reflection, what is really true. This is much more tiring than reject anything that does not Others (scientists) have already proved.
I know I certainly you can not change his mind. However, I would ask you to be more careful with what you say and the general condemnation of all religions.
There are many facts that you may not know if one rejects completely a certain direction.
Yours sincerely,
Matthias
@ Matti12
I confess the same, as I just again read my text, that this comes to a head hard. One might call it harsh, brutal because of me. Where he is, however, incorrect in the sense of observation, which remains hidden from me.
I have in no way promotes suicide. I merely questioned, in fact, very clearly how the choice of one, if not condemned by descendants placed in bad wrongs of man as sin (whether against all or the Holy Spirit or himself or all together) are referred to can, so to speak, they shall, by people who otherwise of mankind, compared with the one who chose to commit suicide, here at the examples Kleist, but if they have less often cowardly and tumb draw the track of her little hypocritical life, the hypocrisy often very much rear- by their religion and highlighted.
I find it HUBRIS, a grown man who, in their right mind deny his right to dispose of his life, no matter whether this constitutes a legal, moral, religious or pseudo-religious
A man who is so desperate or so plagued by pain that he prefers to death, is on top of everything done yet maligned as one who does not satisfy the creation, as an egoist, a bad example for all, a loser, a ne'er-do, a - yes! we say it straight out - subhuman.
You, dear Matthias have not done so, because I want you to take clear in protection; but many, if not most, do that.
Time the other way around, maybe you have never considered: Everyone has - where etc. are not completely drugged or in a coma - At least one choice, the fact whether he wants to remain a decision for yourself, here.
This is seen not only on the negative side, a fundamental form of power. Which I believe everyone deserves.
Kleist has, mind you, not put on a train (well, trains did not exist then, so he could have chosen a coach to throw himself under the wheels), he turned his terminally ill girlfriend on the request of any in a forest near Berlin, then himself, left a suicide note in which he meted out to anyone any Nachbosheit.
However, I am fully aware that from a Christian point of view, suicide is not difficult schlechtzuheißen. Jesus Christ died now ultimately not a suicide? (If we abandon the common tradition to apply.)
I am not interested in the least about glorifying suicide; it is always a sad thing; at least for the bystanders; I feel therefore that these hardest and most consistent with all positive decisions is just not made by people maggoty, the most likely characterized by the fact to believe in any sort of obscurantism, between the Ganges, the Red and the Levantine Mediterranean in the world has been set.
Should there be a migration of souls, one will the experience of the consequences of the decision to release death noticed it myself. Either way. Who would be sent over?
Shameful or not lived. THAT is - at least relatively - what counts.
LG
Magnus
Dear Magnus,
I agree with you, it is None people to judge others. I would also like neither one Lord Kleist (about which I admittedly do not know too much) nor about other people who see no way out, judge - especially since I was in my teens even been in a similar situation. I can certainly understand people like Robin Williams. Also, I know that the most religionists do not exercise restraint.
But from what I know, there is not a super right to suicide. For no man can give life itself, and has no right to take it up. For pain, there are medications (including cancer pain). Every good doctor knows that in such cases the addiction risk is negligible.
But again, no one has the right to abuse than those coward if he was missing only the strength to continue fighting with the circumstances.
Jesus, however, has not wished for sure but his death was obedient to the utmost. His death the people of his time had demanded. To explain his orders precisely, I see myself now but not able to plate without using phrases that are not accessible to the facts in the neck - I beg your pardon.
Everyone who commits suicide will have to bear the consequences - whether out of ignorance or out of spite. However, there are also those people (souls) still hope. So every judgment is maladjusted - even by the official churches, which have long since not much to do with its origin.
I know I might seem a little too confident in this respect, but if you evaluate the myriad reports of near-death experiences, there is the chance that after this life is all over approximately zero.
Of course, every person is responsible for his own life and must bear the consequences - whether positive or negative. Because in the end only - how much I loved. No God will judge them. That will do any self - without being able to speak out. And no one will is hinenkommen spheres, for which he is not mature. The purity andthe light he could never endure.
I know now she must think I'm in total for a spinner. But if you look long enough so busy, you will inevitably come to similar conclusions.
LG
Matthias
@ Matti12
Dear Matthias,
I take now that you (which you can refer of course) and say the same and so clear as unequivocally that I by no means hold you for a spinner.
Instead, you're talking quietly, measured, bring your vision a transparent.
Let us, first, equal to the core:
"But from what I know, there is not a super right to suicide. For no man can give life itself, and has no right to take it up. For pain, there are medications (including cancer pain). Every good doctor knows that in such cases the addiction risk is negligible. "
You go on the assumption that man got given his life and therefore no right to take it himself. This is a view which is to be respected, allzumal when accompanied by explanations that you anfügtest.
Two objections yet.
With pain I know myself - unfortunately - from childhood a bit, even with the most extreme variants. I do not know if I want verdämmern on morphine until I do not even know what my name is, or if I do, it would be different too much to bear, rather delay the rip cord is in the waking state.
Secondly, my life was me actually given by anyone, a God of nature, the cosmos, so I may well be seen with some Fug as a gift, as something that passed into my responsibility: Otherwise it would be me not really given but only a kind of feud, a lease.
In the special position of Jesus Christ, which you anführst in connection, maybe I'll discuss later.
I am glad for the time being to further objections and amendments. Very nice, I thank you that you aufgreifst the theme here seriously.
@ Matti12
I'm now also assume that there is at least a period of time is something else. But some may then gradually go out or absorbed into the rest, what is the same. Others may in different rooms waiting to regain transdimensional set are thought himself a real physical form, it is sufficient other directly in God than nothing, which is all this and more is possible.
I mean simply that it is unreasonable to believe exclusively in one of the variants. I think that the human mind is limited by this kind of faith. The judgment clouded.
I have endless discussions with classic reincarnation believers behind me, and their theories (there are certainly people here who consider themselves Christians) were always inconsistent. I want not now explain in more detail.
The Abrahamitismus now a whole, apart from its mildest, most refined foothills once, so crude, cynical construct that I certainly do not see from that side, what I vorgeigen to moralities, especially not death or life, his representatives should be.
A good portion of them are already verschneidet his male children on the sexual organ.
THE want then make a judgment about suicide?
Unfounded astray?
Dear Magnus,
I know that if I had not already gotten to read as a child reports that have piqued my interest in the "Over" only partially do not agree with the Church of opinion, but rather with the Bible - preferably with the New Testament - About Old I will not comment now, plus I understand it itself is not enough. For the Bible contains several levels of meaning. On the literal sense one must be mistaken. Often images are smoked, but we did not understand today. A simple example: "... rather a camel to go through a needle's eye, than ..." on the label "Camel" was once the Ropes (which are so thick that they are guaranteed not to go through a common needle) and was on the other small side entrance through the city walls of Jerusalem "bottleneck". Since no camel fit through (in our sense).
But back. If one does not refer all reports equal in the kingdom of lies or imagination, but trying to find out the true essence, can slowly emerge with a clearer picture of the afterlife. But to no illusions (like many) to succumb, it is important to analyze critically and soberly. I reject the science in any way. Especially the field of quantum physics has done it to me. But just the must admit that science could only find a fraction, and that the common materialistic worldview falls short.
The main question is: is there a way of life of the people before birth and after death, and what is the out.
Purely scientific, it can not prove what is the nature of the thing.
But if you take the spinner and esoteric takes out of the reports, some reports remain, but give an insight. One way of distinction, to ask - what is the mind of the report ends? He wants attention? Is he looking for money or recognition? Then the chance to truth is quite low. The most convincing are those who report no self-conceit and do not try desperately to prove something.
In very rare cases, a person is shown a piece of the heavenly world. And much more rarely you get such reports in hand. For these people seek recognition but not the inner silence. I have got the extraordinary luck, records of such a person, but probably would not be as valuable to another person, if he has no sense of this. Seek and you will find and be conducted. The heavenly guidance is always careful to "educate" the protege independent thought and action. Want to enslave only the dark side, but this is just as real.
Everything execute exactly would go too far, so I want to suggest only my current knowledge, which can of course still expand and change in some direction.
But what is irrefutably clear to me is that what makes a man - the character, or you can also say that the soul - already existed long before the birth and has made a conscious decision to follow the path over this earth. Usually she has chosen and the circumstances under which it is born. This time on earth is a learning time for all people. We were also clear beforehand that we lose all memories during this time. But we all have consciously decided to do. Our body allows us to make this experience in the world. The brain serves as a point of contact between soul and body, and especially has control functions for the body. The real mental performance does not take place in the brain. The show magnetic resonance studies showing that people who are creatively have, especially a few metabolic activity of the brain in actual cognitive performance.
Death is "only" the final separation of body and soul. This exists then further in the matter-free level. The body is controlled by the soul, but this also formed. Who harms his body, damaging a piece of his soul. On the other hand, maintain a healthy body but also the soul, although the external circumstances would inevitably make him sick. (See reports from the time when the plague raged, but some nuns have still remained healthy, although other people who served the sick are also ill.) However, depending on the lived love the neighborhood and the local people is bright and friendly or be dark and unpleasant. But it will not be condemned but finds himself in a plane corresponding to his character. If she loves more (not sexually) will also lights around them. A higher level but it would not tolerate - The light would be unbearable piercing.
Suicide deprived the people of the further development opportunities and usually adds unnecessary pain to their fellow human beings. But the greatest damage takes the soul itself - but not like some Kirchenvosteher claim that she is roasting eternally in hell (ie distance from the Creator).
A new way of life as a human being on this earth is very possible but very rare. So no rebirth as a tiger or cockroach.
In many religions probably stuck valuable kernels of truth. But none can claim to be the perfect truth.
I also consider myself to NOT to know the truth. I am careful and zoom button can now see dimly certain structures and laws. But the whole thing is no one can ever capture, just like a bucket can hold the sea, but be filled with the water of life he can. This helps me at the moment though not quickly find a new job, but knowing at least prevents me from giving up and think of a suicide at all.
But something is irrefutable: the time on earth is short, but has for the individual a very large value, because the essence of every human being is eternal.
If the life energy of some people you look at and then consider the physical principle that energy can only be converted - will not be destroyed; Where is the energy after death then go?
A principle not only know many religions: mind over matter.
What is the force a woman Nina Kulagina has moved objects?
How could a Mirin Dajo can pierce a foil countless times (even before scientists and an X-ray machine) without a drop of blood flowed and without dying?
A Uri Geller, but who has enslaved his talent by commercialism and craving.
And this spirit can not just go away.
Generally, however, the real religion requires much more energy, mental effort and internal struggle as it may seem from the outside. Of course, there are millions of sheep, the times go every few weeks to church on Sundays, yes and amen, and otherwise not begin to bring the service performance example of a Mr. Kleist.
On the subject of Jews and Circumcision: I can explain what I do not really want to, especially since it is based on the Old Testament only within the religion - see above. The circumcision was practiced in a much milder form than it is today given as a sign of belonging, but since Jesus is obsolete, because he has fulfilled the law that was given to Abraham and brought the new covenant between God and mankind. He preached circumcision of the heart not the body. Unfortunately va take the orthodox Jew Jesus and his message not to, and circumcise their children still in the body in much worse shape. Back then it was just a piece of the supernatant foreskin. Not the exposure of the glans - but only at the margins.
As I said, this issue can only be explained within the religion, to an outsider, it will remain a mystery.
From the circumcision mania in the United States for purposes of the pharmaceutical industry I will not start now times. This is sacrilege.
So, that's a little insight into my inner world.
I am pleased that you will not hit with another opinion equal to the propaganda leg back.
I just wanted to show you that there are other than religious dogma and prejudice are other reasons not to pull suicide as a possibility.
I had previously learned the way, sometimes nursing. Unfortunately, there have only been a little over 20 years, good pain therapies that do not intoxicate the senses with good application. The fine art (which unfortunately does not dominate all pain management) is to keep pain and painkillers in the balance, which is certainly often not easy. But in modern TTS occurs sedation only to an overdose. Of course, it also depends on the type of pain. TTS (pain patch) usually work with analgesics that have a partially thousand times the potency of morphine, but only a slight sedative effect. But as long as pain stimulus and analgesic are in balance, and a high dose does not benebelnd. (With Those you can not kill when it sticks itself ne whole package - much to the chagrin of some Suicidenten;-)
Another "unexplained" kind of help has happened to an acquaintance from my time in Stuttgart. He is an honorary capacity in a free church. One evening he was to play guitar. But because of severe arrhythmias and chest pain for a long time (detected by ECG) he did not dare to go. His wife went away. The church prayed for him. And proven at this time the oppressive feeling was gone and the next ECG was normal again. This friend is one of the kindest, most honest and most intelligent people I know. He would be the very last, would tell me something to produce themselves.
So - now really call it a day.
LG,
Matthias
PS: Could you maybe, contact me via email for further information? And also remove these comments because they are become very personal.
Thank You!
PPS: the first sentence - there still lacks a "I would probably think very differently about it"
Goofy, if you constantly inserts into the text something;-)
@ Matti12
The comments I can not remove unfortunately; that would be quite contrary to the principles of local (also hung my then completely in the air, so I would have to also pay off.)
It knows you not here. So any concern is unfounded.
Okay, just that I use this Username and otherwise.
Regards,
Matthias
@ Matti12
If you are once again in Stuttgart, you can sign up. Then we beat the drum a little further. Thinking Christians often have a whole lot in the cajón.
Oh sorry, I was 2 1/2 weeks ago only in Stuttgart (but only 3 days), and yes - I play Cajon (in addition to piano, keyboard, organ, something Flute) and;-)
Preferably with Siedestick and pedal
Regards,
Matthias
@ Matti12
With the purchase of a cajon I flirted for a while, then includes better, but rattle me these things too much for something for myself, so that I yet again give myself a traditional African drum.
Currently I'm experimenting with free play, such that I (well, a little) to give an image an experience, a story, think a dialogue, or the sea, to no consistent rhythm in the drum.
The luck would have it, I mean, to have found exactly for now for me the right instrument. Every single finger finds its space.
I succeeded, I think, on the Baltic me to let go of musical stereotypes so far that I see new horizons, although the New certainly is a lot to practice and expand. I do not even partially, as it may sound to others; partly mine is also matter.
Once I tried it boldly to wear this kind of sounds in the city, our son-in-happiness-wells, and nobody referred me groused or whistled.
Meanwhile - look, it is also a bit personally, and here one really knows who - I do not know what role, if I may, I next want to play somewhere in the theater, open stage, 10-12 minutes, solo program. Take the drum so that the whole heimzuleuchten Publiko right at the beginning? Dialect? If so, how much? Angle Malaysian sprinklings? Outside or underground or both?
Yes, a Cajon is already a noticeable'd samer Schepper box. You can sit on it and do a whole lot with it when you sing to it and in addition to the handshakes still stirs the foot drum so.
Maybe you will fall in contrast to the clear, bright, short stroke tones.
The cajon (percussion - Zebrano) I had seen about 5 years ago when the friend who was still living in Stuttgart at the time, tried it and the next time you "Brunch and Pray" (that was in the church a church service with band accompaniment, quite a short sermon and then a good meal (bring and share)) are used. (Although I was just visiting - so nothing with samples;-)
Since it is mostly on a drum (he) was missing, I found this version ideal.
So I bought the "Organ money" a few months later one (percussion - 2in1 Makasar - has a warmer sound and buzzes not because instead of guitar strings a snare present). For this purpose, a sidestick (as HiHat replacement), a bass reflex tube (lowers the bass by about a fifth from) for a year and then the foot pedal.
I'm certainly not a professional and not very creative, but I can take the normal drum part and readjust with your left hand on the mixer still. But lately I komm' rare for Cajon game, because I found the combination keyboard and console usually have.
But at the moment this is a minor matter anyway, now heißt's quickly find first time a new job as an optician, of the 400 euros less unemployment than wages can grow a family poorly for several months on water, wenn's was previously scarce; -)
Regards,
Matthias
A very interesting discussion. Magnus is stop the fighting atheist-materialist itself. Everyone knows that a convict escape attempt will be punished. So simple, there is no escape from the Prison Planet. Heinrich v. Kleist and every other living and deceased man: Cosmic criminals! (Violation of the Eleventh Commandment: "Thou shalt not get caught!") Was it the Mayan or Inca had a goddess, especially for "suicide"? That was nice when I heard that. But please, dear fellow, do not forget what Jim Morrison sang "No One's get out here alive ...."
Hanfschnitt
Yes, the discussion here has what it takes.
Ps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_MjWtJN5T4 )
@ Dude
The video is not accessible for me.
Dude
Likewise for me. Probably Germany lock. But Johnny Cash is clear anyway ...:-)
Is it too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5rVmXyZP5s
Dude
thx for Johnny, he was no longer on the Sxchirm
"I will not back down"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8i5NLyXZdc&list=PL4BBC2544E1942DD7&index=14
Magnus
Johnny Cash - The Wall
Are also suitable for you in the big Canton ne version ...