"Beliefs"

Reader Lisa has the concept of "beliefs" in the comment strand to " Jesus as pheno-Mem introduced "here in so persistent as some inspiring way that I want to take it up here specifically.

We listen first in three excerpts Lisa's words,

'Sooner or later you will find out that there are your own thoughts and beliefs, which the reality - all experiences - cause. Therefore, the selection of the thoughts and beliefs is so important. And you can certainly be quite eclectic inspiration here and there. '

'So if you can really neutralize the beliefs that selects a bind to the Unwanted and those which correspond to one's own intentions, then there are more than unpleasant "machinations" the current rulers no longer in their own world. If that many people do, also the company changed accordingly. This is a universal law. What you project, you get back, or what you spend is reality or popular: "How to call into the forest, it echoes back" '.

'Beliefs are not something that you throw on the already existing reality, but they are THE reality. And because we have this reality right before our eyes, this reinforces the chosen beliefs constantly and (almost) everyone calls "but that's the truth." But it is not. "Out there" there is only what is projected. If you want to change the reality, you have to change the programs ... '

Lisa did not protest when I "deeply magical" named their world picture; they could be also of readers Dudes like my objections to the world can not do alone, others just this also deterred.

As before, not one with Lisa's statements to the allwirkenden beliefs, it must be concluded me, however, that because a person must be equipped with an enormous self-confidence, which zuwenigst mine far into the shade.

I myself have been working for years to have no more beliefs as possible.

Not that anything would have gone wrong in my life; but if something went wrong, rinse, and the seemed to not only once, so I put in retrospect but regularly finds that the failure, defeat, disappointment, yes the terrible Begebnis some stupid beliefs had at least been with Pate.

Succeeded hinwederum something, so mostly when I would be the last believed through hard work, through faith unencumbered happiness, also joined probably even a cheaper "random" to however most likely.

Pointed time: Could it be that there are types of people, good for those beliefs, others in which the (rather) not the case?

Or is there only types of people who are particularly adept at design Search of beneficial beliefs, others, like me, who will never learn it? Maybe learn not want to be?

Is this, in simple terms, something like that, there are now times thickness and thinness?

To what extent can there ever decide?

It may be that I just wonder just damn stupid.

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74 Responses to "" beliefs, ""

  1. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    @ All

    Now it's good Halberzwölfede, and I probably do soon Vorschlussabend.

    Beliefs I still want no additional (at least not more than it already stick me on the neck, not even I get so easily cut away with the best Damascus).

    But, as Erich Mielke once said, "I love you all."

    Lisa, as she reasoned all this, naturally, because she at least pretends to be a woman, a little more than the male-brave radical; that was me, because I, please graciously granted by an incorrigible romantic nature.

    I also believe, honestly, not that it was as good or even fair.

    It's just like that.

    I do not want myself to believe it, but it knows.

    What can I at least learn from this?

    The belief in the goodness of my wife is the least bezwungener belief.

    No matter what I do, he jumps out from behind every hedge, he runs everywhere through the city, he mocks and seduced me at Lidl, and, worse still, often he does beguiled my philosophy.

    Has long been a need for action here.

    Only: What helps the faith against grace and beauty, and this even still paired with intelligence and beguiling eloquence?

    Nix. Gor nothing.

    I know, however long ago.

    In this respect I know I am after all a little bit from my innate weakness related to beware.

    And I know also that I can trust it not budge me, must never believe me therein.

  2. Lisa says:

    "I'm saying: You can not know anything without even believing." Dude

    Yes, I would formulate just different. All empirical knowledge, all certainties, everything is assumed as reliable knowledge, arises from any beliefs. Therefore, it is actually no knowledge in the sense of truth, but there are just experiences. Which could be quite different also an appropriate choice of another belief set.
    Know I would define as insight in itself, as a contact for yourself, as knowledge of the immense possibilities of one's being and the arising therefrom appreciation of himself and of all that exists.

    "More likely you could your instruments - intellectually and linguistically - want to check and sharpen here." Magnus

    Yes, there is something to it. I like to entertain myself with smart people who are willing to go as it were to the end of a discussion, or even just at different points of view. Contrasts are a very good way to promote the knowledge. And no, I will not proselytize or're right, and certainly not that one believes me. Each draws from such a replacement, what he wants ...

    "But that does not change the fact that every faith, vow, may therefore occur for no reason ..." Magnus

    You do not need a particular reason to want something or intend. That it itself wants, goes perfectly. The "knowledge" that is, the beliefs that have manifested themselves be justified in retrospect with sometimes quite fanciful causes. But in principle it is also arbitrary, as demonstrated, for example, the Big Bang theory of evolution -or-. Cause and effect, which is limited to the material realm reveals no sense to me.

    "Let's just made clear: If I believe that I meet the right woman within the next year, wants to live at my side, I curse the equally possible, ongoing state of not having Found." Magnus

    Yes, this is one of the traps in beliefs. If what you are not immediate, is "the state of not having Found" Although not always cursed, but the process is greatly doubted. Therefore, the "Erwartunslosigkeit" or letting go, so as not to stand in the way of fulfillment. If you can really allow it, the "success case" is usually much better than one could imagine.

    "How do you know what you can imagine and how do you know what you can not imagine? How could you under such filter out and define a universal condition of a premise? "Thomas

    My whole being knows that and I think it's consistent. Yes, I trust myself to now, some things to know and to know that I think. As for the performances, I assume that everything I can imagine exists, though not necessarily in my world. Ideas - Imagination - get a picture - is one of my favorite things ...

    "Yes, we are currently experiencing, we have the whole event nor the influence that you just added is us. Toll. "Hummingbird

    Who admits to? You focus much on what others do or "concede". But these are actually not affect you, unless you let it. And you let it. You believe it. If you but a "new program" install - and whether it is scrap, so you control the - continue to change your feelings because your direction, your move, to change and you will be notified by your feelings. And, of course, has everything I write, to do with me ...

    Speaking of "manipulation tactics". The aims directly to your beliefs. ...

  3. Lisa says:

    "Remember, knowledge is already shining again, if not directly of the devil, because measured illusory, phoney, ridiculous to contempt." Magnus

    Au contraire!

    I do not like the term "beliefs" also, but other terms such as theory simply does not explain the force, acting with the beliefs. Thought and knowledge are more necessary than ever - the time stream has clearly accelerated - to be able to control the experience, if you want to be a victim of external events, which means nothing else than to be a victim of acquired or acquired beliefs.

    The beliefs are repeatedly associated in spite of my remarks with some religions, this course was practical "tool" long ago hijacked by religious or other rulers and used for their own purposes. Dogmas were constructed and punished for violations, often with death. This is also the case today. Propaganda and advertising can and is used basis, and if this is insufficient, laws are enacted to enforce the intent of the rulers.

    Well, then who can think himself and a sharp intellect. The intellect is the instance that is to recognize the already created things and check on its suitability. When the intellect is but cut off from important sources of information, thinking and cognition is faulty. Important sources of information in addition to the "external" events, literature, philosophy, media and Internet in particular examine the "internal" sources such as emotion, intuition, spontaneous impulses, imagination, impression, Inspiration ... So you can own experiences speak to the heart and kidneys and find out whether what you think corresponds to your wishes, or just been taken over. You can also find out how the mechanisms of consciousness work. One thinks constantly, so how to breathe. The challenge is to determine this thinking freely. Then at least we know that you believe.

    Faith is only a curse if you can force yourself to take a foreign faith. Otherwise it is just a tool by which the perception of the people is filtered. Substituting the filters that you yourself want of faith is no longer a threat and can not be manipulated by any of these "other".

    Faith, thought and knowledge are not mutually exclusive. The man should know and use all the mechanisms of consciousness. Occasionally there is the grace of direct perception, that insight and knowledge, then "knows" you, if you dare to take this insight. This kind of insight, coupled with appreciation, is love and therefore love is rightly the "sharpest sword" of the people.

  4. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    @ Lisa

    I am beginning to think I have understood - the magic approaches her I understood it right away - as you attaches the with faith.

    I think this is not new from the ground here, but you formulate it in a way I have not seen it.

    Faith as ultimately inevitable, therefore, a fortiori be used to make tool.

    That's a terrific idea.

    Maybe I need to think about it with faith yet again.

    However, very careful.

    As already mentioned: For me it has never been worked really well with the faith as specifically applied tool.

    I know you have my above words understood offenschtlich to the pitfalls.

    Maybe you have to proceed as can already from the outset in good shape (that I hinted already in receipt of contribution); otherwise, you do not have very slightly the force sovereign self-supervision, the thing to safely control.

    I'm not whining here, but must mention in this connection that I have some not straight through glowed only joy and success years behind me (at times bombastic express it), so I no good for me and mine "faith management" , in the sense, as you describe it, zutraue (apart from the fact that I am not completely agree with your concepts as before).

    Well, when we're this far, what the heck: I focus on creating, learning, yet better skills (I'm learning quite new interesting people, it does not seem that I had locked myself): I can control when I'm sitting, so to speak on the levers; I do not trust any belief measured an inch across.

    Want to linguistic.

    You've introduced the term "belief" or "beliefs" a very strong acting; at me from the pure concepts ago, less; maybe it was me in the sense of matter so self-evident that he did not impress me much.

    I saw then but how powerful he seemed to others; allzumal to one that I already mentioned, who accuses me since thin when I was too weak in faith (which is why there is nothing with the achievement of and the goals yet, probably never will something) that, having followed our discussion attentively, the term (I so previously never heard of him, at any rate, that I remembered) immediately, like as if only waiting took over and in the above sense led against me.

    What words but can do everything!

    I must, in all seriousness of the issue, but laugh.

    Somewhat ironically, one could say that he was waiting by his beliefs forth only on the word of faith.

    Not only to this to have against the infidel as Magnus (perceived or real) improved verbal weapon in hand, but that was clear to me, even just so for themselves.

    In fact, the term has also to some extent lacking.

    I consider him of accuracy, and therefore welcome him.

    You write:

    "Faith, thought and knowledge are not mutually exclusive. The man should know and use all the mechanisms of consciousness. Occasionally there is the grace of direct perception, that insight and knowledge, then "knows" you, if you dare to take this insight. This kind of insight, coupled with appreciation, is love and therefore love is rightly the "sharpest sword" of the people. "

    Here bothers me the word "grace".

    I experience - at least as far as I can tell as such - now often a direct perception; with grace from any side but that has in my opinion nothing to do.

    First, I would have to learn grace, somehow to blame; Secondly, I see it as the fruit of years of tireless creativity that I direct perception (or something like that, what I think this) experiencing increasingly frequent.

    In short: Who is working all the time, things associative, direct logical as analog, on so many levels as it only reached, always new to link, in which it is no wonder that he then sometimes, often, things immediately into being jump.

    His brain makes you look now times essentially himself.

    Sure to close the circle preliminary, I must, as I know it, not even believe.

    I might possibly indulge in the luxury, just separately to believe it onto the secure knowledge still on top of me.

    I think about it even if I wanted to grant me that.

    LG

    Magnus

  5. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    @ Lisa

    I, like, second thoughts now times my way.

    The following objection is not against you. Not at all.

    I think you überforderst the vast majority of people.

    I know my Pappenheim.

    Most only see what they want to see: keywords, key phrases.

    And this, which is now times the crazy, all the more so the more complex the topic.

    The explanatory notes they no longer want to hear.

    I say this now, you admittedly unsolicited warning.

    It may be that I carry coals to Newcastle.

    But I'm not sure.

    Such a mental force as you they vorbringst, also the requirements that you set (which may not even recognize the mass), few are grown.

    I do not want the fight back to you.

    Sure, you do not need a watchdog.

    But just something to overlook in its scope slightly. From the outside it is often easier to see.

    Look nurmal the reactions here. These are they which written down, so still, probably, the bravest, most confident.

    As it struck at a friends, I have described.

    Pay attention to the power of your words.

    Many people are very vulnerable.

    You want to believe in anything that could give them warmth and power simultaneously.

    Just as something you offer to speak.

    I do not mind.

    Your thoughts give me some positive inspiration, even if I do not share too full.

    Be cautious, careful.

    Let tell you that from a veteran, this was not sufficiently manchesmal.

    Here you nothing happens; at least it can be assumed; in other places but I would me not so sure.

    I hope (yes, that comes but even before), that I have written unnecessarily, or, if not quite, that it arrives correctly.

  6. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    @ Lisa

    Not often - when ever? - Before that I turn hintereinant me of a commentary three times.

    Maybe I run - after a long abstinence - but again a little bit of magic: ie one or the other set of beliefs.

    Sigh. Very possibly.

    Just as I wanted to start a sentence, the crumbs dropped me be turned brink between the legs, untdurch, the rest I could save.

    Quite seriously. Most holy oath. A character.

    Now I almost still, so as if the reproach and the warning was not enough, the hintraushängenden tobacco, which I otherwise care always carefully abzuzupfeln, out of sheer terror almost still in throat and possibly transported trachea.

    My Lord. The me. In the age.

    No, your strength, I'm probably not grown. Anyway, on the magical level. (Unless you were angry, because I can do other things.)

    After Tanja Krienen and bookmarks (only chronologically meant) You best mixed up the store here as a woman.

    I've never been - at least not since I met the mother of my children - the opinion that still widespread pernicious that women are not capable of philosophy; I think this is an infamous lie, not difficult to guess their origin.

    To argue with a woman who has indeed also undoubtedly a special charm; you want to look elegant and somehow becomes all the more ridiculous.

    This is my somewhat matured humors such as sports spirit very well.

    And I mean just, no, I see not only in this Strange evidence that may be conducive to the old sleeping bags by stewing in self-juice half men only.

    Cheerio!

  7. Lisa says:

    You're absolutely right about the "grace". I would only have to think "graciously", then I would have seen the Inappropriate. So, thank you!

    "I might possibly indulge myself the luxury of just extracting it to believe it onto the secure knowledge on top of it." Magnus

    Luxury comes not from lux, the light? And would not it be a clarification? Of course you should keep your "certain knowledge" and expand it little by little, not more "knowledge", but by a "safe belief" that what you deserve, come to you. Just like that. You can declare as the end of the heavy years. They were certainly useful to you, but you also make new decisions. Your "faith management" brought you to where you are now and you'll be thankful for it. If you bring to fruition n also other things like, fame, glory or matter - they gönnne you let it. ...
    Fake it till you make it! -)

    "Most see only what they want to see: keywords, key sentences"

    Yes, or they only see what they could see. This whole problem is known to me. So I guess the exchange here a lot because he just does not collapse at the first cue.

    Yes, people want security and power and I think it is them to. What most people but unfortunately not want is to take these security and power and that is only with self-knowledge, real insight, if it is any good, that is permanent.

    I am of the opinion that now things have to name them and must not have too much regard for feelings. "Friends" have naturally adopted, but anyway we had nothing more to say. In a way, I'm fallen out of the "normal" society, but this "price" I find no way to high. Perhaps mankind split into "knower" and "ignorant" and the up to a point where communication is impossible. There is nothing bad and there is nothing to condemn. Those who do not aspire to a kind of knowledge, doing their thing on and the others finally notice you always existing knowledge and allow yourself the luxury of enlightenment.

    We have discussed here only about beliefs, but an important issue, although only one among many. Awareness - and the world - are very complex, but the basic rules are simple. But so far I can get in a normal conversation not to make this clear.
    "The explanatory notes they no longer want to hear." (Magnus)

  8. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    @ Lisa

    I can not praise appropriately again your words ...

    You seem (pardon the expression rustic, but now I think you're not hypersensitive) really, as they say among men, to have an ass in the pants.

    You can take criticism, even harsh criticism, reflect on, thoughtful, hard clear same answer, sensitive and appropriate.

    So I do not want to keep behind the mountains so now I do not know you; But you could be a Prachtweib. (There's an article here to title "Splendour women".)

    I mean a self-confident, sovereign woman who is fully capable of discourse.

    I mean really full to discourse, and not only to F or O.

    Unfortunately, there are too many men, I spoke a few moments ago been the other way around, which want no woman this kind admit contour always insist with a woman is ultimately not to philosophize, at some point it was still offended to avenge, they would finally but there alswie of Depp. The woman could never give up his womanhood, finally it will but ... its natural ... etc.

    Yes, I want to leave behind me the hard years. Easier said than done, however.

    And, yes, they were not all bad. Ich musste nochmal, diesmal lange, durchs Feuer, eher einen Schwelbrand, der manchmal übel aufloderte, aber ich bin noch da, und ich habe viel gelernt.

    Dass Du mir dahingehend ohne jede Sentimentalität oder irgendein Mitleiden Mut zusprichst…

    Es ist für mich inzwischen völlig glaubwürdig, dass Du selbst keinen leichten Weg gehst.

    Ich sagte Dir schon einmal (da war es noch eine halbe Drohung), dass ich lesen könne. Ja, zumindest das kann ich ziemlich gut. (Ein bisschen geübt.)

    Ich bitte Dich aber: Übertreibe es nicht!

    Wenige werden Dich verstehen.

    Sie werden Dich vielleicht nicht von hinten die Treppe hinunterstoßen, so dass Du es gerade noch, schwerverletzt, überlebst; sie werden Dir nicht unbedingt das Jugendamt ins Haus schicken, die Polizei; trotzdem: Pass auf!

    Absolutely!

  9. Thomas says:

    Lisa, es gibt Dinge im Leben, da helfen Einstellung, Glaubenssätze oder neue Programme nichts. Das ist es, was Kolibri meinte. Wenn morgen zB ein Krieg ausbricht und ein Feind dir eine Bombe aufs Dach wirft, dann kannst du das nicht mit Glaubenssätzen aufhalten.

    Zurück zu meiner Frage: Was, wenn du dir die wirkliche Welt nicht einmal annäherend “richtig” vorstellen kannst, was, wenn deine Imagination nicht ausreicht und du deshalb auf einem völlig falschen Weg bist? Was, wenn all deine Vorstellungen am Ende Nonsense sind? Woher nimmst du die Gewissheit, dass Dinge so sind, wie du sie weißt oder glaubst? Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob das – bitte verzeih den Ausdruck – nicht an Größenwahn grenzt? Zu wissen, wie der Hase läuft. Wieviele Philosophen haben sich daran versucht? Wieviele sind am Ende umgefallen bar der unlösbaren Aufgabe? Wieso kannst du wissen und glauben, dass die Welt so ist, wie du sie dir vorstellst? Wir sind da, denke ich, an einem Punkt, wo die Katz sich in den Schwanz beißt. Oder ich habe deine Argumentationskette noch nicht voll verstanden. Ich werde nochmal alles nachlesen.

  10. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    @ Lisa

    Forgot I still (today had a wonderfully pleasant experience): Love is not a sword.

    It is a cup that is filled together and from one drinks together.

  11. Lisa says:

    "Yes, I will leave behind me the hard years. Light but said than done. "Magnus

    Good decision! No, it is not too easy, but to remain in the status quo seems even more difficult. I have already written: Pretend as if it has already happened and in fact it has already happened in the decision. The perception, however, takes time. Just enjoy the time and think agiere in this sense - unexpectant and without comparisons - and as you wrote, you have already the "good vibrations" produced and drunk the sweet cup. When I wrote of "love as the sharpest sword," I have not only meant romantic love. But no matter where the high frequencies come ... Bring it on!

    "Lisa, there are things in life when setting, beliefs or new programs help nothing." Thomas

    Do you see what happen for dramas in your mind? War, bombs ... Why such a calamity ever think?

    Even if everything "wrong" would be what I think - which of course I do not go out - so it would be after all my own decision. The certainty I take of myself and I recommend everyone. I have already written: As one dies alone, we live alone, ie, no one can remove one's life and no matter how many "experts" know better. One should trust themselves simple - trust the self.

    I do not think that "megalomania". Megalomania to me is what is happening now on Earth. These wars, this destruction, the mistreatment of humans, animals and plants, the inferiority of thought, the all-encompassing vulgarity and ignorance. This is the worldview that is to be taught. No wonder that the man no longer trusts himself.

    I say it once with Goethe, who is on this page do not particularly welcome, but still ... It fits very well with delusions of grandeur ...

    "There is nothing more terrible than one active ignorance."

  12. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    @ Lisa

    Der “süße Kelch” war “bloß”, dass ich von Dir freundliche Worte empfing und mich noch zwei Frauen am selben Tage sehr nett anlächelten und ich ein paar durchaus fröhliche und angenehme Worte mit ihnen wechselte. (Nur um hier keine Missverständnisse zu produzieren.)

    Zu Thomas/Goethe

    Goethe-Zitate sind hier, wo passend, alleweil willkommen.

    Der Mann war ja nun wirklich nicht doof.

    Mir passt nur einiges Charakterliche an ihm sehr deutlich nicht; siehe, was ich bezüglich des Wilhelm Meister, auch den Faust II betreffend, zu seinen Werken geschrieben habe. (Zum Tode Schillers gibt es gewisse “Verschwörungtheorien”…)

    Ich gebe Dir recht, aber auch Thomas.

    Thomas sozusagen mehr.

    Du hast m. E. darin recht, dass es nicht eben förderlich ist, dauernd an die schlimmen Sachen zu denken, die “geschehen”, genauer, gemacht werden.

    Andererseits gehen sie davon, dass man nicht daran denkt, nicht weg.

    Das nämlich, zumal, jetzt zitiere ich mal mich, wird sehr leicht auch zu einer untätigen Wissenheit.

    Ich schreibe auch von derlei Dingen (Syrien…).

    Ich will das auch so und denke auch, dass dies meine Pflicht ist.

    Dann schreibe ich aber auch mal wieder über meine geliebte Markthalle, den Quijote, Nietzsches einzigartige Lyrik, lobe und preise dies und das.

    Ich weiß sehr wohl, dass diese Seite sehr wahrscheinlich sehr viel erfolgreicher wäre, schriebe ich immer über mehr oder weniger dasselbe; das schüfe weitaus mehr Leser; aber Leser wie einen Thomas oder haschmech oder Dude oder eine Lisa hätte ich dadurch wohl eher nicht.

    Sondern die Hinzen und Kunzen, Schranzen und Funzen.

    Die sich nur für Geld, Sex, Jesus…interessieren.

    Ich denke übrigens, inalsoweit ich das einschätzen kann, dass Du Dich mit Thomas sehr gut verstündest.

    Nicht nur, dass er ja durchaus manche Deiner Gedanken teilt; er hat auch Humor (wir haben schon telefoniert) und eine keineswegs negativistische Weltsicht. Er zeigt sein Gesicht, ist als IT-Fachmann gleichzeitig durchaus kritisch, was technizistischen Irrsinn anlangt. Als Libertärer traut er dem einzelnen Menschen etwas zu. Er steht für Freiheit.

    Nochmal zur Liebe.

    Diese kann in dem Sinne natürlich auch ein Schwert sein, alsdass man daraus nicht nur schöpft und trinkt, dareingießt und hegt, sondern dass sie Widerstände oft, wo sie nicht aufzulösen, zu durchschneiden vermag.

    In diesem Sinne habe ich sehr wohl verstanden (denke ich), wie Du es meintest.

  13. Thomas says:

    Danke Magnus für die kurze Zusammenfassung meiner selbst. ;) Und ja, ich denke auch, dass ich mich mit Lisa verstehe. Aber mein Ansatz ist grundverschieden. Ich habe zwar einen “Draht” zu den Schwingungen und den Frequenzen. Ich bin überzeugt davon, dass sie uns mehr beeinflussen, als wir zu wissen glauben. Ich habe sogar Literatur über Frequenzexperimente bei keimenden Pflanzen, die bei einer gewissen Frequenz mit urzeitlicher DNS keimten, die unter heutigen Frequenzbedingungen inaktiv ist. Aber ich kann überhaupt nichts damit anfangen, dass jemand, der positive Energie aussendet, andere damit zum Positiven AUTOMATISCH beeinflusst.
    Sicher kann man sagen, wenn jede Generation von Menschen sich anstrengt, besser/gütiger/friedlicher zu werden, es über die Generationen einen sehr starken Effekt haben wird. But! Dieser Effekt kann vollständig gegenteilig ausfallen! Denn besser/gütiger/friedlicher zu sein bedeutet über Generationen hinweg auch naiver und gutgläubiger zu werden. Ist der kritische Punkt der Naivität und der Gutgläubigkeit überschritten, wird diese ach so fröhliche Welt in einer gnadenlosen Diktatur versinken. Denn einer wird es auszunutzen wissen…

    Die Welt kann noch so gut sein – ein Einzelner kann alles zerstören.

    Therefore, it helps in my view, only limited build this cuddly and loving the world. Nature is simply different. And man is nature. Any attempts to create a better person, have failed with great suffering and will fail again and again.

    I'm not saying that there may be this world once. We probably only talking a few hundred people generations too soon about it.

  14. Thomas says:

    You put a rotten apple in a basket of good apples and see what happens. Conversely, this trick does not work!

  15. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    @ Thomas & Lisa & All

    I had just, dare inge looks at a beauty salon Stuttgart Clase Dorada past, through the window, in this vain bunch, in my Lidl at least a mid-awakening experience.

    And as to what we are doing wrong, as we are first and foremost poled then, "cool" to be: even if it reaches us only for the Lidl.

    I now do not say more: it is still too fresh, but it was striking.

    Very nasty, perverted reason, at last stupid shit sunken "belief" and also experienced acting in me.

    Saviour bag!

    "Bad, that is cowardly!" (FN)

  16. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    @ Lisa & Thomas

    Du, Lisa, ignoriertest einfach alle faulen Äpfel um Dich herum, bis die, hernach grüngeschimmelt, restlos weggetrocknet und Du, wo Du es wolltest, gar noch grün zurück am Baum.

    Damit wären jene dann spätestens bedeutungslos.

    Bingo.

    Ich habe Dich ins Herz geschlossen, Lisa; vieles an Dir, von Dir, beeindruckt mich und gefällt mir sehr. Endlich mal wieder eine Frau mit Format.

    Thomas aber sieht klarer.

    (Ob wir hunderte Generationen brauchen…naja.)

  17. Dude says:

    Magnus

    Auch wenn Lidl und Aldi hier dem Coop, der Migros und va dem Denner nicht geringe – Tendenz steigend! – Marktanteile wegschnappen, kauf ich in den Läden trotzdem nicht ein. Ich habe gottlob auch das Glück, dass kein solcher Konsumstempel der zwei Deutschen Riesen hier in meiner Gegend steht.

    Ps. Frag mich aber bitte nicht, was das mit Glaubenssätzen zu tun hat. ;-)

  18. Lisa says:

    "That's why it helps, in my view only limited to build this cuddly and loving the world. Nature is simply different. And man is nature. Any attempts to create a better person, have failed with great suffering and will fail again and again. "

    You need not to create a "better person". The human being is already perfect. It is rather a matter of choice, what man wants to be one. Currently it is still the case that it is a fearful man is mostly, striking wildly, because he did not know enough. He does not know that he determine his own reality and his world "cuddly and loving" or also can always make.

    And no, I do not ignore the "facts". I see her, tell if I like it or not and if not satisfied, I ignore it, which I do not always succeed. That is not to change the collective world, but my own. It is not that one. Due to one's own perception, filtered through the beliefs that changed the collective world It is more likely that you go into a parallel world, are no longer present in the certain states.

    As of now it is even more complex and "wacky". But I'm going this afternoon for a couple of days away and I probably will not take my electronic toys with. The parallel worlds have to wait so if it interests anyone.

    "The snake that can not moult perish. Similarly, the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. "- Friedrich Nietzsche

  19. Dude says:

    Lisa

    “Es ist nicht so, dass man durch die eigene Wahrnehmung, gefiltert durch die Glaubenssätze, die kollektive Welt verändert. Es ist eher so, dass man sich in eine Parallelwelt begibt, in der gewisse Zustände nicht mehr vorhanden sind.”

    Dem könnte man dann aber auch, statt Überwindung bzw. Neutralisierung von Glaubenssätzen, schlicht und einfach Realitätsflucht sagen.

    Denn nur weil ich die Realität ausblende, dass multinationale Konzerne Menschen und Umwelt vielerorts ausbeuten und zerstören, wird das eben nicht weniger geschehen, und ehe ich mich versehe, erwache ich in der Hölle der Realität wieder, einfach weil mich die äusseren Umstände (fliegende Kugeln, Viren, Polizeistaat, etc.) dazu zwingen. Klar hat man immer die Wahl, einfach wirklich auszusteigen, aber diese Ultimo Ratio sollte man auch wirklich nur noch dann anwenden, wenn alle anderen Möglichkeiten bereits ausgeschöpft und gescheitert sind.

    Ich freue mich aber schon jetzt auf Deine weiteren Erläuterungen zu den Parallelwelten, und wünsche Dir eine gute Reise.

    Lieben Gruss vom Dude

  20. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    2 Antworten zu “Glauben und Fluchen”

    Lisa says:
    7. November 2012 um 08:58 (Bearbeiten)

    Wenn es ein unangenehmer bis destruktiver Glaubenssatz ist, ist es ein Fluch.

    Wenn es ein angenehmer, im eigenen Sinn produktiver Glaubenssatz ist, ist es ein Segen.

    Magnus Wolf Göller sagt:
    7. November 2012 um 15:23 (Bearbeiten)

    @ Lisa

    Nein, so einfach ist es meiner Meinung nach nicht.

    Man mag zwar wissen, was einem ein zunächst angenehm erscheinender Glaubenssatz ist, aber ob er auch im eigenen Sinne produktiv ist, das weiß man keineswegs.

    Glaubenssätze pflegen sich sehr leicht über jedes vernünftige Maß hinaus selbst zu verfestigen; man gesteht sich nicht gerne ein, dass man sich verrannt hat, rennt weiter; je stärker der Glaubenssatz zementiert, je länger er eingeübt, um desto schlimmer.

    Ich kopiere beides mal noch rüber in den anderen Strang, wo die Hauptdiskussion ihren Lauf nahm.

    Finde ich übrigens eine sehr gute Idee, wenn Du Dein elektronisches Spielzeug mal zuhause lässt. Es wird auch noch an Dich glauben, wenn Du wieder zurück bist.

    Da müssen wir zwar (schluchz! – nein, im Ernst: Ich mag Deine Beiträge) eine Weile auf Deinen Beistand verzichten, aber, ich denke, irgendwie halten wir das schon durch.

    Ich wünsche Dir ebenfalls erbauliche Reisetage.

  21. Thomas says:

    Come back and good healing back, Lisa!

    Your last comment reminds me of a story:

    In a flock of sheep, there was a shaft that you would call "conspiracy theorists". It watched as the shepherd faced down every now and then the other herd sheep into a trailer and a couple of miles away in a big house drove, never came out again from a sheep. Our sheep often spoke to the other about the fact that the house there was something wrong and it suspected terrible. The other sheep erwiederten always that the shepherd had never as yet done something to them, except twice a year Scheeren. And they could never imagine, even swore that the shepherd was their protector and they never something will happen as long as he cared about them and as long as they do not ausbrächen from the pasture.
    But our sheep did not give in and kept repeating that over there was something wrong and it should be better to escape one night, to escape the horror. The Leitschaf forbade him then his mouth. There do with his insane theories only the herd restless and should finally be quiet. You can fully rely on the shepherd.

    Our sheep obeyed.

    One day the shepherd, the sheep loaded into the trailer and drove with them to the building. When they got there, it smelled fresh blood ...

    Easy to ignore things can be fatal. Confidence in the system and that the mass is right can, horrible end. Ignore is wrong.

    But be offended by every rumor to leave also. It is important to make sense to weigh, analyze, and then implement their own decisions.

  22. Magnus Wolf Goeller says:

    @ Thomas

    Sehr schönes, schauriges Gleichnis.

    Great!

    Wir werden das Lieschen (Lisa: Es ist das nur lieb gemeint; wenn ich das nicht mehr sagen soll, verbitte es dir einfach; ich werde mich daran halten) wohl nicht so schnell “bekehren”; immerhin aber redet es mit uns; nein, sie; und es mag wohl sein, dass sie auf ihrem doch ganz speziell ambitionierten Wege Sinnvolles davon mitnimmt.

    Manches sickert langsam ein.

    Kunst braucht Zeit.

    Eine Frau mit radikalen Ansichten (ich setze darauf, dass jeder versteht, wie ich das Wort “radikal” hier verwende).

    Stolz, mit klarem Vorhaben.

    Ich denke, dass sie das, was nun Du, zuvor Dude, zuvor ich, ausgedrückt haben, bedenken wird.

  23. Dude says:

    Thomas

    Wahrlich ein grandioses Gleichnis, danke dafür!

    Erinnert mich irgendwie an mein Schaf unser und einen Witz.

    Schaf unser
    Das du bist auf der Weide
    Geheiligt sei dein Klee
    Dein Schäfer komme
    Deine Sättigung geschehe
    Wie auf der Alm
    So auf der Heide
    Unser täglich Gras gib uns heute
    Wie auch wir wiederkäuen unsere Halme
    Und führe uns nicht auf die Schlachtbank
    Sondern erlöse uns von den Schlächtern
    Denn dein ist das Mäh und das Bäh
    In Gelassenheit
    Und Friedlebigkeit
    Rülps

    ;-)

    Sagt das eine Schaf zum anderen Schaf:
    “Du, ich glaub der Hund macht mit dem Schäfer gemeinsame Sache.”
    Antwortet das andere Schaf:
    “Lass mich in Ruhe mit deinen Verschwörungstheorien!”

    Ps. “radikal” kommt von “Radix” = “Wurzel” :-)

  24. Thomas says:

    Ich finde solche Diskussionen auch sehr informativ und die Gedanken anregend. Das Problem dabei ist leider zu oft, dass diejenigen wie Dude und Lisa nicht die passende Sprache besitzen, um EXAKT das auszudrücken, was sie meinen. Das bremst in der Diskussion. Man redet oft aneinander vorbei. Man kann mit der deutschen Sprache alles mögliche ausdrücken und umschreiben. Aber selbst das Deutsche ist nicht in der Lage, allumfänglich das zu sagen, was die beiden wirklich meinen.

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